A very elaborate PET thread! (with art)

Stuff you would like to see in the world of Eliatopia.
zienice!!!
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Re: A very elaborate PET thread! (with art)

Post by zienice!!! » Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:41 am

add pet plez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Joey!!
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Re: A very elaborate PET thread! (with art)

Post by Joey!! » Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:04 pm

zienice!! wrote:
Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:17 am
Add pet please!!!! 🥺
what is that in the reflection of his/her eye
8-) 8-) 8-)

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MrQuiwito
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Re: A very elaborate PET thread! (with art)

Post by MrQuiwito » Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:02 pm

cinos wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:23 am
Okay, so seeing as the game has reached post-game territory, I believe it is time to make an actual, serious pet thread. None of that single sentence nonsense that just asks for a botting machine, it is time that we begin discussing the idea with the intent of adding it in the future in a compact, and sleek form. Note that the thread is made prematurely, I am actually preparing many pet designs and concepts with the hopes of giving a good amount of creative ideas, but I feel the need to make a post detailing what is imo the ideal mechanics for pets.

But first, a disclaimer. Pets are quite the beloved mechanic in most MMOs and Helmet Heroes was no exception, but while a lot of fondness comes from the designs of the monsters and the sheer fun of it, a lot of their design was flawed to the point of legitimately breaking game progression. These are things we want to actively avoid and move away from. Eliatopia has shown many times that it can strive to be in many ways way better than Helmet Heroes (Story, customizability, balance, stability etc). This is something most players either don't understand or refuse for pets, saying that we should either add them as is (GOD no), or that we should make them basically worthless. I say nay to both of these, since they can ultimately be ignored for a concept more balanced and more useful than you'd think.

What do we omit?
Quite simple. Pet orbs are gone, completely. Visually they were clutter, gameplay wise they were a balancing nightmare, and it only seemed good to the uninformed (including me, actually) because HH was a game with problems in it's balance already thanks to books. They allowed for single digit level players to get godly stats via the power of money...we don't want that even without books, it would completely break the game.
This will also make the whole "4 extra pet slots" payvault feature NOT a completely p2w type thing, if you want to add that. I think I've made mistakes in the past by undervaluing the game's position as a source of income, and I feel the need to apologize. I think that without the broken stat boosts, this is a feature of convenience that does not in any way cause balance issues, personally, I think it would sell, I mean, I'd buy it, no guilt in just HAVING more cool pets...so there you go, a suggestion to help the game make more money.
Second? The pet will not use moves without being commanded. I will elaborate later, but this essentially puts an end to afk super pets, which is good.
As for things like love? Yeah, no clue, it's all dependent on you, since even in HH all love meant was shoving apples in your pet's pie hole to not get some of the worst stats in the world. I don't think it was bad, but I don't think it's a necessity either, this one is debatable.

So, what do I mean by "commanding"?
Alright, get this. The pet will follow you around just fine, but attacking is based on commanding the pet with the F, G and H keys (ALSO YOU CAN HEAL WITH ; AND ' lmao). Each key will do a specific move, but all will have one thing in common, the pet will run up to an enemy and perform it. This is a good implementation for many reasons. One, it streamlines the control you have over a pet, making it so that you don't have to switch between "modes" every so often via a menu, besides, of course, withdrawing it. You won't need to worry about accidentally having left a weak pet on "attack mode", for example. Second, afk is dead, and for the better. Really, I find it odd now barely anyone mentioned how useless pets were for anything other than lazy afk-ing, from my experience, they just flailed around randomly and never helped. This is why making us command them is an improvement, it allows for pets to actively help you fight, which is in my opinion far more interesting than a boring stat boost, or botting but legal.
Also in case anyone says it, if someone bots using these, that's not a problem with the pets, that's a reason for them to get banned. I say
Also, since I know some of you are absolutely clamoring in your gamer chairs over this, You will not be able to command a pet that is stronger than you, aka a higher level than you., we are going by pokemon rules where they recognize how much of a weak baby nub you are. They just nod in confusion. This will stop players from sequence breaking.

What else? Ah yes, two things, rideable pets don't have a mount mode, you just press V on em like normal, duh, and also I don't see anything bad with including a controllable pet feature on the payvault. It is already balanced enough, all this will do is provide the player with a fun novelty. Probably make it unable to leave the area in this mode but uhhh ya know.

needless to say, no, you can't mount kill with a pet outside of PVP.

How does a pet prioritize enemies?
PVP made me think about how pets can be implemented. One, yes, players can kill pets and pets can kill players in PVP, but how do we know which one they'll prioritize? Simple, make it controllable ala kingdom hearts or Secret of Mana. Here are the behavioral patterns I came up with:
1)Prioritize Nearest
2)Prioritize Strongest
3)Prioritize Weakest

This not only makes pvp managable, but also bosses with spawning goons like the ooze horror or Lumbercore. I think it's neat.

How do you revive a pet?
PVP also brings a valid question, "how do I revive a pet?". Simply put, if you revived it via healing, it would be completely unbalanced. If you had some kind of "phoenix down" item, it would ALSO be unbalanced, since you could legit just spam it, seeing as items stack. Simply put, Pet stations, uhh vets, they will revive your pet. This is because in HH, pets would get revived by talking to special npcs who healed you...these don't exist anymore, so this is the only fix I have. I do not want, in any way, want to imagine a world where pets can be revived on the fly, it would be completely off the wall bonkers. So just have these in every major city in some way.

The moves?
I think creating around 12 moves which are shared around sometimes is a good way to add variety while also saving up development time. Considering how the animations work in eliatopia, I think this is plausible. Plus, note that it'd be a decent idea to add MP to pets, it'd be so much simpler to balance.

These are the moves I have come up with:
1)Bite: A standard bite attack, enemy lunges forward while doing a bite motion with their jaw. Exclusive to pets with jaws.
2)Stomp: The pet goes up to an enemy, jumps up and does a ground pound, certain pets should have an animation ala mario, depends on body type.
3)Lunge: Alternate version of bite, I recommend retooling the logon's attack patterns and animations for this.
4)Pummel: Pet unleashes a fist barrage at the monster, exclusive to pets with arms. Has endlag.
5)Fireball: Pet opens mouth and unleashes a fireball. Does fire damage, I'd recommend retooling the fireball from cionic. (Uses MP)
6)Great Fire: Pet opens mouth and unleashes a flame streak. Unlike the ball it is a continuous move. Basically just magic breathe/azulong/metal nature factory balls.
7)Nausea: Pet does a pose and unleashes toxins, does poison damage, becomes better per evolution, think of the colossal's attack or those poison mushrooms at the borough. Probably a multihit.
8)Jolt: Plays some kind of animation and emmits an electric spark attack like the tesla crawler, emmits electricity.
9)X-Plow: Pet runs into an enemy, hitting them WHILE running. The attack is based on the pet's element and emmits it's respective rune type damage. Functions similarly to the feral beast's run.
10)Leech: Pet runs up to monster, prepares, and does a long bite. It gains health from doing this. Is it drinking blood? Eating prey? We may never know.

TBA

These are not definitive, they should however give you a good idea of what I'm thinking. Some evolutions might have three moves, some two, maybe even one! Designing these to be shared will be more efficient I think...you know, while still being unique.

Sizes, armors, %?!?!? What is this?!?!
I think something which would be fun is differing sizes for pets. In HH, they were all basically the same size. I don't know how much this take a toll on the dev time, not at all, but I think it would be quite fun. For example, you could have an absolutely tiny pet, something QUITE large (think auroch beetle, maaaybee scrap bot...feral beast??? :flushed:), and of course pets which are about as tall as humans and eliatopians. Basically, the monsters give me the impression that we can toy around with how pets are sized and proportioned, we could totally have a bunch of really unique pet designs.

Armors...I think pet helmets should return, of course, but imagine how, in the same vain as shoes in HH, some pets can wear pants, or the chestplate, or NOTHING at all! That last one is a bit of a gimmick, which is a nice segway into the next topic.

Things like increased drop rates, crits (MAYBE, just a thought), and other attributes...yeah I dunno I think stuff like that should be a feature for some of these. Imagine for example, the nub pet, the extremely cheap one, a squisher type, having the increased drop rates. You would need to defend this lil ball 24/7, I think that'd be interesting.

what eeelsee- oh yeah I think the pet shop should be in shroom borough, since that area is more rural, it would probably have an animal market. Second, it's barren! It needs spice, though this might change by the time pets are added...I mean, cmon, it's ambitious even by default.

PET DESIGNS, WOOO YEAAAHHHHH

Right now, the only decently refined design I got is from months ago, that being the monkey one which was based off Quiwito's concept. Take a look:
Image
It's not properly split into parts for rigging but I mean, it's a decent piece of art for now. Everything else looks too rough, they need some time.

Give feedback, I'm kinda sleeping, I probably screwed something up.
Segsi roundkey draw :)
Thx cinos for pfp

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cinos
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Re: A very elaborate PET thread! (with art)

Post by cinos » Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:05 pm

MrQuiwito wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:02 pm
cinos wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:23 am
gfffdgsfdsgsfdgfsd
Segsi roundkey draw :)
why did I read that as segway?
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zienice!!
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Re: A very elaborate PET thread! (with art)

Post by zienice!! » Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:37 am

Add

Flashlight237
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Re: A very elaborate PET thread! (with art)

Post by Flashlight237 » Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:38 am

No offense to CV, but I'm a man who likes to look at both sides of the table, and frankly, despite my Helmet Heroes-induced refusal to allow pets in the game, I feel that this might actually be the best thread on the idea of pets there is, as it takes note of some of my biggest gripes with pets (overt booking, friggin' PET AFKing) and handles them in essentially meaningful ways.

I will say, there is that one gripe I have on pets still, that being how their stats worked. I've played a ton of Pokemon in my prime, what with it being the poster child for pet-battling franchises and all, and there, stats were based on two things: fixed stat values (base stats) and training. Friendship had nothing to do with stats and it really isn't manipulated by stuffing an entire buffet down their throats.

The way I see it, handling pet stats should work basically like how it worked with Pokemon. Not mechanically, just the base idea (base stats + training/effort). Stat growth is the tough part imo, mainly because Pokemon is basically the only series that put a formula into stat growth. Can't really say how tough it is to differentiate stat growth from what Pokemon did.

Personally, I had imagined crabs having strong defense while both Scorpees and Feral Beasts would basically share the highest base attack stat.

Hrm. Man, I'm not well-versed at this thing.

I have designed one pet line. Well, it's more of a pet web with branched evolutions.

Image
Image
Image
(Counter-clockwise: Barbacrab, Yeti Crab, Flintclaw)

Basically instead of a standard three-creature evolution line, I've considered a branched evolution line. This one would involve the Swamp Crab: an early mob that I personally liked. Instead of being based on levels, the Swamp Crab would evolve as such...

Swamp Crab evolves into Shellshocker with any Electric Rune
Swamp Crab evolves into Barbacrab (Poison-elemental Crab) with any Poison Rune
Swamp Crab evolves into Yeti Crab (Ice-elemental Crab) with any Ice Rune
Swamp Crab evolves into Flintclaw (Fire-elemental Crab) with any Fire Rune

That way, ideas can be more spread out with pets.

I suppose I'll support this thing.

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cinos
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Re: A very elaborate PET thread! (with art)

Post by cinos » Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:52 am

Flashlight237 wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:38 am
No offense to CV, but I'm a man who likes to look at both sides of the table, and frankly, despite my Helmet Heroes-induced refusal to allow pets in the game, I feel that this might actually be the best thread on the idea of pets there is, as it takes note of some of my biggest gripes with pets (overt booking, friggin' PET AFKing) and handles them in essentially meaningful ways.

I will say, there is that one gripe I have on pets still, that being how their stats worked. I've played a ton of Pokemon in my prime, what with it being the poster child for pet-battling franchises and all, and there, stats were based on two things: fixed stat values (base stats) and training. Friendship had nothing to do with stats and it really isn't manipulated by stuffing an entire buffet down their throats.

The way I see it, handling pet stats should work basically like how it worked with Pokemon. Not mechanically, just the base idea (base stats + training/effort). Stat growth is the tough part imo, mainly because Pokemon is basically the only series that put a formula into stat growth. Can't really say how tough it is to differentiate stat growth from what Pokemon did.

Personally, I had imagined crabs having strong defense while both Scorpees and Feral Beasts would basically share the highest base attack stat.

Hrm. Man, I'm not well-versed at this thing.

I have designed one pet line. Well, it's more of a pet web with branched evolutions.

Image
Image
Image
(Counter-clockwise: Barbacrab, Yeti Crab, Flintclaw)

Basically instead of a standard three-creature evolution line, I've considered a branched evolution line. This one would involve the Swamp Crab: an early mob that I personally liked. Instead of being based on levels, the Swamp Crab would evolve as such...

Swamp Crab evolves into Shellshocker with any Electric Rune
Swamp Crab evolves into Barbacrab (Poison-elemental Crab) with any Poison Rune
Swamp Crab evolves into Yeti Crab (Ice-elemental Crab) with any Ice Rune
Swamp Crab evolves into Flintclaw (Fire-elemental Crab) with any Fire Rune

That way, ideas can be more spread out with pets.

I suppose I'll support this thing.
Interesting, though such an idea is definitely only viable for one or two pets (ala eevee), or perhaps a pet that evolves via a different diet (i.e. it grows healthy via the fruit, and it becomes a sick mf if you give it burger boys food). There's many ways to handle such things.
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bubster
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Re: A very elaborate PET thread! (with art)

Post by bubster » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:37 pm

personally I liked the orbs bc whenever i saw someone with lots of big orbs I knew they were powerful

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cinos
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Re: A very elaborate PET thread! (with art)

Post by cinos » Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:23 am

bubster wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:37 pm
personally I liked the orbs bc whenever i saw someone with lots of big orbs I knew they were powerful
They were clutter, and we don't need to see orbs anymore...because pets don't MAKE you powerful.
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zienice!!
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Re: A very elaborate PET thread! (with art)

Post by zienice!! » Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:29 am

Add pet please 🥺

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