PVP balancing: A thread

[cinos]

I have observed the general complaints about pvp, added a few of my own observations, and I have compiled a list of things I believe need tweaking.

General

Healing, especially now that people are getting more than 500 HP, is pretty ballsy. I know what you're gonna say, bit hypocritical coming from the applespammer, but personally that never really stopped me from dying since most players had around 200 or 300 HP, it just made battles longer due to increased durability, but nothing IMPOSSIBLE seemed to come out of it due to the general stat builds of the time.
Currently, however, there has been a bigger focus on maxxed out HP for warriors, who use rage to compensate for the lost stat points. That in itself is not a problem, but when you combine that with the previously mentioned increased durability, on a build pretty much made for durability, you can see that it presents kind of a problem that we might need to take care of. Another point I've seen brought up is macro users (aka cheating prιcks), who pretty much heal in an inhumane degree. Some have recommended really crappy, non-nerfs, such as literally disabling healing (bad), or having some kinda artificial limit. In my opinion, those are all shιt, and the true solution requires a precise, always consistent limit on how much you can heal per every 60 frames or so, which increases the more you heal, and wears off in around two seconds of not healing. Therefore, in simpler terms, and in lacking mathematics (ask flashlight for this, I have no clue):

Let's say, you start spamming the comma key, as one usually does, at first you are able to use around 10 HP items in 60 frames, then 5 in the next 60, and then 3, and then 2, and then one HP item per 60 frames. This will reset once the player stops healing for around...two to three seconds, which seems more than enough time to stop macros, but not too long to make healing useless compared to how vital it is in the current meta. With this you are able to tank some hits, but must quickly find some kinda escape route, or be more strategic in your healing. This, in turn, keeps the durability players have in PVP now, but does not make it completely off the walls insane and unbeatable once all players start reaching 600 HP.

Melee needs to use the mouse to work, imo, I don't get how in a game with such an emphasis on aiming with the mouse, two classes have a basic attack that doesn't have any aiming, and ONE of those has literally no attacks that utilize the mouse to aim at all! The melee in question is also not satisfying to use, inaccurate, and looks weak. I have already commented on this, but if we can't make the melee look cooler, we can atleast make it so that mouse input is required for accuracy, seeing as...well, half the game IS mouse based, why is one class so much stiffer than the rest when using it? Why is this a PVP issue? Because you don't really see basic melee being used in pvp, do you?

Wizard

:y
I do like the shield nerf, it was a good idea and it does make it less unbearable...storm clouds are still annoying though, you all know how they put you in stun locks and pretty much mitigate the shield pops. It's a shame too, I wanna nerf this dumb, annoying skill, but also want to buff Mages so they aren't so BORING in every other scenario (grinding, any other move in PVP). How? I dunno follow these scribbles:
Make Storm Clouds damage based and unable to knock players down, literally all knocking a player does is be extremely annoying. See, other classes in a lower level range that are able to kinda hurt you but not really affect you, they ain't that tough, but Wizards in the level 60 range can lock a level 90 with the tiniest amount of damage, just because it knocks you down. If they place the clouds in a rhythm you are not moving, you aren't going anywhere. They aren't challenging you, you are just unable to do anything because you simply CAN'T MOVE! That shield nerf? Yeah, okay you popped a mage by some miracle, cool, good luck getting up with like four storm clouds up your αss.
How do we stop this? Simple, make storm clouds stronger, but unable to knock you down. Currently, clouds are just annoying, but if we increase their damage and stop the knocking, they become more useful for killing players (aka, the point of pvp), and less like the spawn of satan making you unable to move while being unable to even scrape you, just because the bloody thing has that tiny knockdown mechanic on it. Simple and cool, there you go.

What else? Ah, right, make magic breathe not suck total shιt. Currently magic breath is just a meme, it does no damage, it is fvcking worthless! How do we stop this? Honestly, it's probably repetitive, but just increase the damage or something like that!? What other use does this thing have? It's FIRE BREATH, you expect it to do a lot of damage! Is it weak because it's set to the M key, which is where most weaker abilities are set? Well, I dunno man, what use does fire breath have if it's so weak? Buff it.

I have no clue how to, or even if we need to buff the orbs, I'll let you guys decide that.

Wizard melee is boring and needs something to set it apart from the Warrior. Oh wow, MP makes it stronger if you use a skill? Yay?
No, that's really lame, and it needs some kind of unique attribute. I have suggested things like shooting lasers, probably less than the whipmaster's range to not completely bury that class into the ground, but I dunno, just add SOMETHING to the Wizard's melee that screams MAGIC, ya know? HH had the orbs, I've heard the complaints about those, so I'm not going to suggest them, but add SOMETHING, ya know?

Gunman

Uhh...I dunno, I don't have much to suggest besides fixing the dumb 200 drone bug, it's only useful for macro users, and it really flips the point of the drone being a weaker, supportive artillery weapon, rather than this hellspawn of a framerate busting army that makes Leonidas's troops look like cat shιt in comparison. Any claim of the base damage being too low is...well, first inaccurate and second kind of an oxymoron, like YEAH the class is the fast, long ranged one. Of course it's bullets aren't as strong as the archer's arrows.

If anyone mentions money power, do it in another thread, nobody is stupid enough to use it in PVP.


Conclusion

This is one big thread and I only listed like 2 of the three classes, and that's because most issues that might appear in the others are easily fixed by the general suggestions I typed up there. Plus, whipmaster...I have literally never seen a top level whipmaster so I straight up don't know what they play as or against a player. I just know that the class doesn't yet have an M skill...so uhh, enjoy making 200 threads for that.
I'm quite satisfied, infact, with Archer and Warrior. Arrow hoard is now a slow but efficient damage move, as a hoard should be. I'm serious, it does a lot of damage, even in lower levels, any claims of archers being weak now is quite frankly bogus.
Ninja Slash fixed everything wrong with Warrior and that makes me extremely happy, they're no longer an afterthought, they're actually cool!

Thread over, go home kids.

[Robby]

Thanks for the write up. I'll refer to some of the other things mentioned here soon, but to be quick and address the healing issue..

I do admit I don't think it's entirely the coolest thing to be able to spam healing items. It does seem to make HP a little less meaningful, and it just feels a little weird IMO. What if I were to implement a very quick eating animation of your player eating the item? It won't be long and annoying, maybe just half a second, but it'd hopefully be enough to make spamming them much less useful. You could obviously not move or attack during the short animation, and it would make you vulnerable and perhaps add a little more strategy for where you decide to use your healing items at. It'd also make players have more of a reason for buying higher HP healing items. Yay or nay?

[Savage0]

Thanks for the write up. I'll refer to some of the other things mentioned here soon, but to be quick and address the healing issue..

I do admit I don't think it's entirely the coolest thing to be able to spam healing items. It does seem to make HP a little less meaningful, and it just feels a little weird IMO. What if I were to implement a very quick eating animation of your player eating the item? It won't be long and annoying, maybe just half a second, but it'd hopefully be enough to make spamming them much less useful. You could obviously not move or attack during the short animation, and it would make you vulnerable and perhaps add a little more strategy for where you decide to use your healing items at. It'd also make players have more of a reason for buying higher HP healing items. Yay or nay?

This is fine. Could there be a purpose added to PVP btw? literally see no investment in going in just to get killed and getting "cheap thrills".

[TheWood]

Why can't a mage have a distance orb instead of an op field?

[MrSchunk]

I really liked the idea of removing stun effect on the clouds and improving its strenght. It would be better for all in pvp, and i also agree on the magic breathe. Nowadays is a useless skill because it costs A LOT OF MP, and does no dmg (also in wands users, having 2 fire breathes is actually annoying ngl). It would be nice to be able to use it while moving at least

[cinos]

Thanks for the write up. I'll refer to some of the other things mentioned here soon, but to be quick and address the healing issue..

I do admit I don't think it's entirely the coolest thing to be able to spam healing items. It does seem to make HP a little less meaningful, and it just feels a little weird IMO. What if I were to implement a very quick eating animation of your player eating the item? It won't be long and annoying, maybe just half a second, but it'd hopefully be enough to make spamming them much less useful. You could obviously not move or attack during the short animation, and it would make you vulnerable and perhaps add a little more strategy for where you decide to use your healing items at. It'd also make players have more of a reason for buying higher HP healing items. Yay or nay?

Mhm yeah sounds good, now everyone can see our sheer gluttony. Jokes aside yeah it seems to solve the issue.

[cinos]

Thanks for the write up. I'll refer to some of the other things mentioned here soon, but to be quick and address the healing issue..

I do admit I don't think it's entirely the coolest thing to be able to spam healing items. It does seem to make HP a little less meaningful, and it just feels a little weird IMO. What if I were to implement a very quick eating animation of your player eating the item? It won't be long and annoying, maybe just half a second, but it'd hopefully be enough to make spamming them much less useful. You could obviously not move or attack during the short animation, and it would make you vulnerable and perhaps add a little more strategy for where you decide to use your healing items at. It'd also make players have more of a reason for buying higher HP healing items. Yay or nay?

This is fine. Could there be a purpose added to PVP btw? literally see no investment in going in just to get killed and getting "cheap thrills".

What "purpose" is there besides fun, or what you for some reason call "cheap thrills"? Does EVERYTHING have to involve money or exp? No, some things are just there to be fun.

[JoMan2]

This is totally off topic but this seems like evolution and natural selection. About smth in science class where the best of the best can adapt, survive the best, live longer, have the most babies with those genes (idk maybe people will copy other peoples techniques)

[Flashlight237]

Thanks for the write up. I'll refer to some of the other things mentioned here soon, but to be quick and address the healing issue..

I do admit I don't think it's entirely the coolest thing to be able to spam healing items. It does seem to make HP a little less meaningful, and it just feels a little weird IMO. What if I were to implement a very quick eating animation of your player eating the item? It won't be long and annoying, maybe just half a second, but it'd hopefully be enough to make spamming them much less useful. You could obviously not move or attack during the short animation, and it would make you vulnerable and perhaps add a little more strategy for where you decide to use your healing items at. It'd also make players have more of a reason for buying higher HP healing items. Yay or nay?

I say Yay to this. I remember seeing healing work a similar way aesthetically in Epic Battle Fantasy 5... Where you eat friggin beer cans to boost your attack power for some reason. Yep. The whole can. Good lord.

It'd be funny to see something similar happening with Green Soda where you eat plastic bottles like you're a suicidal sea turtle.

[-ZERO-]

Hmmm I think there's nothing wrong with having a high HP because it's a strategy that doesn't break any rules of the game, It may be beneficial but it has its downsides, if you maxed out you HP, you will have less points for other stats, and the rage is not really enough to compensate it all so that's where the item and exp sacrifice comes in, so yeah I think it's just fair.

And for the class that has no aiming, I think it's just fine because it still hit the enemies, and if you put that aiming, mobile version's aiming might be messed up if you know how it feels like to aim using archer, gunman, and whipmaster on mobile version.

Anyway, the idea about healing is good so yeah I don't have anything to say about that part.