Shurikens: Ranged Weapon for Warriors

[Tens]

warriors don't need a range attack

Oh, screw off; you want warriors to lag behind forever?

the whole point of warriors is that they are a melee class. they don't lag behind, they have their own perks like other classes

[Zuji]

Warriors are already equal with the much better sets and weapons so yes the should only have melee attacks.

[GeraltOfRivia]

They are equal only if there is no one else on location. Been there check this-compare to gunman, mage, archer, warrior usually loose all the line. He have to walk nearby every enemy to perform attack, while every other classes can easily kill from much bigger distance. Better set? oh please i suppose that each class will have same amount of sets so that argument is well invalid. Better defence-yeah thats true but for what higher def if warrior won't be able to reach mob which will be instantly killed by another class. And don't even try to say that top players are warriors- that is only because we actually play the game not only stay AFK.

[Flashlight237]

They are equal only if there is no one else on location. Been there check this-compare to gunman, mage, archer, warrior usually loose all the line. He have to walk nearby every enemy to perform attack, while every other classes can easily kill from much bigger distance. Better set? oh please i suppose that each class will have same amount of sets so that argument is well invalid. Better defence-yeah thats true but for what higher def if warrior won't be able to reach mob which will be instantly killed by another class. And don't even try to say that top players are warriors- that is only because we actually play the game not only stay AFK.

I'm with Geralt here. It's like I said. Archers and gunmen are pretty obvious while mages got something that's technically considered more powerful than simple ranged attacks: Two. Different. AoE. Attacks. Wanna know how that looks?

Let's say red is the player and green is the attacking range. Warriors got this one little square in front.:


Archers and gunmen got a line in front of them, like this:


And mages, with their AoE spells, got THIS!:


And furthermore, as the primary artist for the gears, I can confirm that the whole "warriors have better defense" argument is invalid since they have two different kinds of sets: Defense sets (Fencing, Acrylic, Rusted Bronze, and Knight) and Strength sets (Ninja, Wolf, and Shinobi). Nobody touched the strength sets since they've fallen out of favor when the abandoned factory's warehouse was released and the Wolf set became no longer necessary (there was an actual divide between the Wolf and Police sets before then). I personally predict that Strength sets will regain their popularity when warriors get shurikens.

Even then, the statement that warriors should only have melee attacks is flawed to the very core as it ignores the very general nature of the term "warrior." Like, for starters, look at the definition of the term "warrior.":

Warrior: A person who is actively engaged in battle, conflict or warfare; a soldier or combatant

To put it in simple terms because I feel obligated to do so, a warrior is anyone who fights. That's it. Nothing that specifically says they are just people with swords and stuff. If one WERE to stick with all the sword guys, let's look at ninjas. I've frequently seen the term "ninja warrior," and I do mean frequently. There are two things that differentiate ninjas from the berserker-style or crusader-style warrior that the warrior player-base, myself included, have taken up.

1. Ninjas don't bum-rush things; instead, they mainly rely on stealth.
2. Ninjas are versatile.

When I say "versatile," I mean it. As much as I'd recommend exploration media-wise, you can gather the idea that ninjas are versatile just from watching TMNT and Naruto. You got katanas, kunai (which are trowels, mind you), sais, nunchuks, shurikens, and (although they're not that useful in real life) paper talismans that either seal or explode. Ninjas even used logs as getaway decoys. Yes, logs. That's more versatility than what crusaders and berserkers have at their disposal.

Mind you, better games like Epic Battle Fantasy 5 gave the warrior ranged abilities.

[GeraltOfRivia]

Now i wonder if anyone will still try to fight with logic.

[Tens]

They are equal only if there is no one else on location. Been there check this-compare to gunman, mage, archer, warrior usually loose all the line. He have to walk nearby every enemy to perform attack, while every other classes can easily kill from much bigger distance. Better set? oh please i suppose that each class will have same amount of sets so that argument is well invalid. Better defence-yeah thats true but for what higher def if warrior won't be able to reach mob which will be instantly killed by another class. And don't even try to say that top players are warriors- that is only because we actually play the game not only stay AFK.

I'm with Geralt here. It's like I said. Archers and gunmen are pretty obvious while mages got something that's technically considered more powerful than simple ranged attacks: Two. Different. AoE. Attacks. Wanna know how that looks?

Let's say red is the player and green is the attacking range. Warriors got this one little square in front.:


Archers and gunmen got a line in front of them, like this:


And mages, with their AoE spells, got THIS!:


And furthermore, as the primary artist for the gears, I can confirm that the whole "warriors have better defense" argument is invalid since they have two different kinds of sets: Defense sets (Fencing, Acrylic, Rusted Bronze, and Knight) and Strength sets (Ninja, Wolf, and Shinobi). Nobody touched the strength sets since they've fallen out of favor when the abandoned factory's warehouse was released and the Wolf set became no longer necessary (there was an actual divide between the Wolf and Police sets before then). I personally predict that Strength sets will regain their popularity when warriors get shurikens.

Even then, the statement that warriors should only have melee attacks is flawed to the very core as it ignores the very general nature of the term "warrior." Like, for starters, look at the definition of the term "warrior.":

Warrior: A person who is actively engaged in battle, conflict or warfare; a soldier or combatant

To put it in simple terms because I feel obligated to do so, a warrior is anyone who fights. That's it. Nothing that specifically says they are just people with swords and stuff. If one WERE to stick with all the sword guys, let's look at ninjas. I've frequently seen the term "ninja warrior," and I do mean frequently. There are two things that differentiate ninjas from the berserker-style or crusader-style warrior that the warrior player-base, myself included, have taken up.

1. Ninjas don't bum-rush things; instead, they mainly rely on stealth.
2. Ninjas are versatile.

When I say "versatile," I mean it. As much as I'd recommend exploration media-wise, you can gather the idea that ninjas are versatile just from watching TMNT and Naruto. You got katanas, kunai (which are trowels, mind you), sais, nunchuks, shurikens, and (although they're not that useful in real life) paper talismans that either seal or explode. Ninjas even used logs as getaway decoys. Yes, logs. That's more versatility than what crusaders and berserkers have at their disposal.

Mind you, better games like Epic Battle Fantasy 5 gave the warrior ranged abilities.

warriors will probably have aoe attacks later in the game. It makes sense since their weapons are swords. Could be a skill that makes you spin the sword, or even stick the sword into the ground and cause a small earthquake (like in hh), so id say it is pretty early to be judging classes based off of their range from skills.

Also warriors DO give more defense. It gives you the most defense in the game, AND it even gives more damage than the archer set. So basically warriors have to spend less on defense skill points and can also put more skills into attack, at the cost of being a close range class. You are literally putting off a main point for your own convenience.

Idk why you are defining warriors. By definition that would make literally every other class a warrior lul. Using a dictionary for a game that probably didnt have much thought put into the class names sounds stupid. The class' main weapon is a sword, obviously it is gonna be a cqc class.

Also no idea why you relate this class to ninjas, or "better" games considering they have completely different game mechanics than elia, and elia is only limited to 4 classes. Now i would understand if you tried to push for more classes, such as your weeb ninja ideas, but warrior is a cqc class plain and simple.

Edit: also given their current skills, they are already better than other classes. Warriors have rage, archers dont really have anything (pls buff rob), gunman have grenade, and mages have storm cloud. Seems pretty even to me

[Flashlight237]

1. Again, the reason why warriors give more defense is because people choose sets that are more defense-oriented when sets that are clearly strength-oriented (Ninja, Wolf, and Shinobi) are available, not to mention that one skill, Blind Rage, throws defense out the window. If you choose Blind Rage over Cautious Rage (that's assuming the game makes the move of blocking out one or the other after you've chosen), what then, especially when you pick a strength-oriented set like the Shinobi set over a defense-oriented set like the Knight set? Players have two choices provided to them if they pick "warrior": they can either sacrifice power for defense with defense-oriented sets like the Knight set and defensive skills like Cautious Rage, or sacrifice defense for power with strength-oriented sets like the Wolf and Shinobi set and offensive skills like Blind Rage. Without any outside influence to provide skills for players who prefer glass-cannony strength builds (which in other RPGs and MMOs are actual classes/sub-classes like "assassin" and whatnot), of course it's a no-brainer that people would choose armor and skills with better defensive capabilities: there's nothing there for strength-builders to work around their lower defense! It may be the player's choice to pick defense-oriented armors and to pick Cautious Rage over Blind Rage (the latter obviously meant to focus on strength), but that's because with how things are currently set up, it almost feels like you have no choice BUT to pick a defensive build. Explain to me how accounting for every contingency is considered "putting off a main point," especially given some of the things we have on our plates? And no, I didn't include Blind Hit because that skill is worthless to both defensive and offensive builds. (Don't even bring up Lifeless Crush since I'm saving that for a later point)

2. That ignores the fact that warrior weapons are broader in scale than swords in-game, which by the way leans more closely to the dictionary definition than your ideals. There's knives and daggers (rusty dagger, survival knife, kunai), clubs, hammers, scythes, spears (pitchfork and tribal spear), an axe, and a sickle. Mind you, one of my main goals with warrior weapons is to give them more variety (which HH lacked). Don't even get me started on what you get when you branch out of Eliatopia like I do and note that some games turn warriors into all-around/blaanced characters.

3. How about I point you to Jakub's (bear in mind, Jakub's idea for a RANGED ATTACK, the thing you're still ignorantly-insistent on not letting warriors have, is throwing your own weapon) response to a suggestion about an assassin class: "The best we'll get are sub classes, which you can make through the skill tree."

Yes, the skill tree, which the game already has in its infancy. You know what else? It further supports my ninja point. Wanna know why? I'll put it in simple terms for you so you can start seeing the bigger picture you've ignored: Wanna focus on skills oriented towards running into battle like Rage (plus its children skills) and Lifeless Crush? I hope you like calling yourself a Berseker or a Crusader, because that's what you'll be doing. Wanna focus less on defense and wear the Shinobi set? Wanna do it all while throwing shurikens, making yourself invisible for a short amount of time to allow yourself to safely (as in nothing harms you) attack enemies in close-quarters combat, and distracting enemies with log decoys for a swift getaway? Hope you like being a Ninja, which can alternatively be named "Assassin," "Rogue," or "Thief" when you focus solely on the mechanics.

Considering every attempt I've seen in suggesting new classes into Helmet Heroes (like assassin) constantly led to "well that's just -insert class here- but with extra steps"-type responses, getting skills like these in is a simple matter of throwing them into the warrior's share of skill tree. Just have it to where the skill tree blanks out one sub-class or the other in the tree and bam. You get a way to split two different ways to play "warrior."

----

Now that that's out of the way, since I am the one who works on a huge chunk of the game's art (including giving you everything you equip) and is thus an indie developer, you would be wise to shut up and let me do whatever I want, because indie developers are only good as long as they're ALLOWED TO BE CREATIVE. Since you're so insistent on "the main point" and refuse to see the bigger picture, the main point of indie games is people being allowed to do whatever they want. Robby takes suggestions for Eliatopia and gains insight from them because that's what he wants to do. I make art for the game because that's what I want to do. If you can't accept that we're doing whatever we want like indie game devs, then kindly go away.

[Tens]

Now that that's out of the way, since I am the one who works on a huge chunk of the game's art (including giving you everything you equip) and is thus an indie developer, you would be wise to shut up and let me do whatever I want, because indie developers are only good as long as they're ALLOWED TO BE CREATIVE. Since you're so insistent on "the main point" and refuse to see the bigger picture, the main point of indie games is people being allowed to do whatever they want. Robby takes suggestions for Eliatopia and gains insight from them because that's what he wants to do. I make art for the game because that's what I want to do. If you can't accept that we're doing whatever we want like indie game devs, then kindly go away.

ngl most of the things you add are pretty bad. some is good, but id much prefer robby do his own original work over yours. also i think your ego is taking control of your keyboard, because if you think suggesting art makes you an indie developer, you gotta share some of that lsd my friend. also the phrase "you would be wise to shut up and let me do whatever i want" is probably the most childish thing ive ever seen on the elia forums LMAO. you are an egotistical lunatic that thinks he is better than others because he draws sets on a game that gets 10 players average.

you cant take criticism on your art, so that is probably why some might tell you not to do art. you can do what you want, but that doesn't stop other people from criticizing what you do, or in this case, revising terrible suggestions.

1. Again, the reason why warriors give more defense is because people choose sets that are more defense-oriented when sets that are clearly strength-oriented (Ninja, Wolf, and Shinobi) are available, not to mention that one skill, Blind Rage, throws defense out the window. If you choose Blind Rage over Cautious Rage (that's assuming the game makes the move of blocking out one or the other after you've chosen), what then, especially when you pick a strength-oriented set like the Shinobi set over a defense-oriented set like the Knight set? Players have two choices provided to them if they pick "warrior": they can either sacrifice power for defense with defense-oriented sets like the Knight set and defensive skills like Cautious Rage, or sacrifice defense for power with strength-oriented sets like the Wolf and Shinobi set and offensive skills like Blind Rage. Without any outside influence to provide skills for players who prefer glass-cannony strength builds (which in other RPGs and MMOs are actual classes/sub-classes like "assassin" and whatnot), of course it's a no-brainer that people would choose armor and skills with better defensive capabilities: there's nothing there for strength-builders to work around their lower defense! It may be the player's choice to pick defense-oriented armors and to pick Cautious Rage over Blind Rage (the latter obviously meant to focus on strength), but that's because with how things are currently set up, it almost feels like you have no choice BUT to pick a defensive build. Explain to me how accounting for every contingency is considered "putting off a main point," especially given some of the things we have on our plates? And no, I didn't include Blind Hit because that skill is worthless to both defensive and offensive builds. (Don't even bring up Lifeless Crush since I'm saving that for a later point)

you literally said "the whole 'warriors have better defense' argument is invalid", how is that invalid in any way? that is literally one of the best things about warrior lmao. so yeah its putting off a main point, the complete opposite of "accounting for every contingency". You also explain why people prefer defense sets over damage sets in ur post lmao, idk what you are going for in that paragraph.

2. That ignores the fact that warrior weapons are broader in scale than swords in-game, which by the way leans more closely to the dictionary definition than your ideals. There's knives and daggers (rusty dagger, survival knife, kunai), clubs, hammers, scythes, spears (pitchfork and tribal spear), an axe, and a sickle. Mind you, one of my main goals with warrior weapons is to give them more variety (which HH lacked). Don't even get me started on what you get when you branch out of Eliatopia like I do and note that some games turn warriors into all-around/blaanced characters.

wow, such a wide variety of weapons, yet they all are just melee weapons. the exact definition of warrior doesnt matter bruv, it is a game. making warrior have range attacks would literally defeat the purpose of it being a warrior, because there are literally 3 other classes that can do that. the thing that makes warrior special is that it is a melee class.

3. How about I point you to Jakub's (bear in mind, Jakub's idea for a RANGED ATTACK, the thing you're still ignorantly-insistent on not letting warriors have, is throwing your own weapon) response to a suggestion about an assassin class: "The best we'll get are sub classes, which you can make through the skill tree."

Yes, the skill tree, which the game already has in its infancy. You know what else? It further supports my ninja point. Wanna know why? I'll put it in simple terms for you so you can start seeing the bigger picture you've ignored: Wanna focus on skills oriented towards running into battle like Rage (plus its children skills) and Lifeless Crush? I hope you like calling yourself a Berseker or a Crusader, because that's what you'll be doing. Wanna focus less on defense and wear the Shinobi set? Wanna do it all while throwing shurikens, making yourself invisible for a short amount of time to allow yourself to safely (as in nothing harms you) attack enemies in close-quarters combat, and distracting enemies with log decoys for a swift getaway? Hope you like being a Ninja, which can alternatively be named "Assassin," "Rogue," or "Thief" when you focus solely on the mechanics.

Considering every attempt I've seen in suggesting new classes into Helmet Heroes (like assassin) constantly led to "well that's just -insert class here- but with extra steps"-type responses, getting skills like these in is a simple matter of throwing them into the warrior's share of skill tree. Just have it to where the skill tree blanks out one sub-class or the other in the tree and bam. You get a way to split two different ways to play "warrior."

making a ninja class that is just an altered version of the warrior wouldnt be bad. after all, archer is a lot like cowboy. as long as they have separate skills and art styles, nobody will care.

also I didn't ignore/put off skill trees, ive literally only been talking about range skills for warrior. I think skill trees are cool! The idea of distracting enemies with a fake playermodel sounds great. but removing the basic features of the warrior is not. it is a melee class, just like in hh, and how it is in elia. no matter how many other mmos you reference, warriors in elia should always be cqc. There are hardly any other mmos that are like elia anyways.

[Danigh]

hmmmmmmm warrior has more damage and def and u wanna has range attack ok if isnt fear warrior has most damage and def in game and fight with ranged weapon

[Zuji]

bump