Eliatopia Forum

When you play a game like this you mainly focus on choosing clas that can deal biggest amount of damage, or other skills that helps. Having here 5 different classes makes you think that their overall power made within a best skills should look in order like this-from biggest to lowest:
1. Warior
2. Whipmaster
3. Archer(lower shoot speed than gunman)
4. Ex aequo mage and gunman(possibility to use strong passive skills).
But if we look a bit deeper how it really looks here the results are suprisingly way different that are supposed to be. Let me explain. I am gonna mainly focus here on warrior and gunman class since i have their skills maxed and simply wanna show how broken it is.
At first lets take a close look at gunman-how much damage he can do within one single minute. As an example here is a pic of one gunman using money power skill: As you can see his damage is 134-249k. Lets make it simple and assume his damage is 200k each time(bear in mind this always depends on how much money is he carrying, also this is not one of the TOP gunmans).Also i'm gonna assume he can shoot 600 RPM(one gun usually do around 300 shots per minute)
Now lets see how this looks in total(to not makes those numbers too big i'm gonna cut those numbers by assuing 100k damage output deals 100):
200x600=120000
120k damage within only 1 minute sounds preety cool, but wait theres more. Lets not forget about coin shot that deals 300% of base damage:
120000x3=360000
360k sounds even better, but lets not forget aslo about one favourite gunman skill: Trap Roll that deals 675% of base damage and can be used without any limit-you can drop as many of traps as you want. So lets say you use 10 of them within one minute:
200x10x6.75=13500 additional damage
In total we get: 373500. Also i am not gonna add to this grenades which can deal more damage than traps.

Now lets take a look at what can warrior do while on rage: Damage 476-885k looks amazing. Lets assume he deals 750k(750) with each swing and within a minute he can perform 100 swings with 1 sword, in total 200 swings per minute.
750x200=150000.
Now as you can see at this point this is only a bit better than gunman. But lets keep moving to next step. To maximize the effect he can use Ninja Slash which deals 210%, and will be performed 40 times:
750x2.1x40=63000.
Now this looks way better, but this skill can hit max 9 enemies with a certain radius, which means counting usual re-spawn time of most enemies and chances all 9 of them will be in range is very small, so i assume if you will be able to use it one per minute makes you quite lucky.
No lets not forget about power smash that deals 450% of base damage, if you can use it even 60 times.
750x4,5x60=202500
Now even knowing that it is impossible to swing all the time and use both skills at the same time lets count this.
150000+63000+202500=415500.

Now what do we get if we compare them both? it looks that warrior is a bit better with overall damage at this point. But lets make some more realistic calculation here.
Gunman: shots 500 times per minute with coin shot and drops 10 traps(they love to drop them as much as possible tbh).
200x500x3+200x10x6.75=300000+13500=313500.
Warrior swings 150 times(always on rage ofc), uses each skill 5 times:
150x750+750x4.5x5=112500+16875=129375.
Now the numbers shows reality ain't in warrior favour anymore.
As an addition to that i should mention that this is pure damage calculation that don't count distance to enemy, any rune damage that in gunman case can deal at leats triple as much as warrior(600 RPM versus 200 swings) and actual range of class, not to mention how any skill works exactly for mentioned classes. Also there is always some % mistake in it, that i am well aware. But any attempt to mix exact damage, numbers of enemies and distance, to get "close enough" numbers is well waste of time( but if you want you can assume 1 mob kil every 2 sec, overall distance within one minute 500ft and distance between each mob is 5-20ft). Still those numbers shows how broken is difference between classes and i guess few cardinal changes should be made to most classes.Especially that gunmans can use pasive skill(range has no point here) to kill while warrior need to be always in certain range.
As an addition here is what archer class damage looks while using all the time arrow hoard(best archer skill):
Damage output:50-90k(lets even use 90k), 70 arrow hoards per minute(6 arrows each deals 150% damage):
90x70x6x1.5=56700,
ok ok lets even add razor guard to this and assume it can deal "somehow" 100k damage, means 100 in every 2 sec:
56700+100x30=56700+3000=59700.
Compare to those 2 classes it doesn't even made it pass 60k total
It shows 2 main problems with gunman: money power skill and clamp trap are way too OP to give others a chance.
There are some thing i suppose i forgot to mention here, but hope you get my point in total.
Also as an another addition just wanna ask for whipmaster with power around 10-80k
My point is wth?Whipmaster with those stats looks like blind old cripled man that is lucky if he can hit and kill something stronger than lets say stalagmite within one shot.Every other class have way bigger base minimum damage.
If anyone want he can add here how it looks fo other classes as well.
If anyone wanna bring here PVP case and poison resistance as an example gunman isn't that OP, make your own post or suggestion about this, because here i want to focus mainly on PvE.

Why would you want to add a razor guard? It's almost garbage, it's useful if all the projectiles hit the target. Razor leaves do little damage.

What about the fact that only gunners, rarely warriors, can get into the hall of fame for highest damage? This is impossible for mages and archers.

TheWood wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:30 am

What about the fact that only gunners, rarely warriors, can get into the hall of fame for highest damage? This is impossible for mages and archers.

That's the nature of an infinite source of power, it just makes you as fragile as a skinless toddler.

cinos wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:18 pm

TheWood wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:30 am

What about the fact that only gunners, rarely warriors, can get into the hall of fame for highest damage? This is impossible for mages and archers.

That's the nature of an infinite source of power, it just makes you as fragile as a skinless toddler.

Usually players set damage records on the squisher with the lowest damage and defense of all the monsters in the game. I think your defense has to be less than 1 for it to kill you.

TheWood wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:40 pm

cinos wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:18 pm

TheWood wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:30 am

What about the fact that only gunners, rarely warriors, can get into the hall of fame for highest damage? This is impossible for mages and archers.

That's the nature of an infinite source of power, it just makes you as fragile as a skinless toddler.

Usually players set damage records on the squisher with the lowest damage and defense of all the monsters in the game. I think your defense has to be less than 1 for it to kill you.

yeah but it's just the ultimate drawback of making a skill like that, it dominates in pure numbers and no substance.

TheWood wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:27 am

Why would you want to add a razor guard? It's almost garbage, it's useful if all the projectiles hit the target. Razor leaves do little damage.

Made it like that only to "fake" rank up his damage, that's all. Just look at it without that skill.

Cowboy is definitely the best class for grinding because of money power, however I do have a bit of a rebuttal for you. I don't totally disagree with you here, but I more so think the problem here will mostly be fixed over time. Let me explain.

The way money power works, it is not exponential. It gives a bigger damage boost at the start (the first say 1m of money you are carrying), then as you keep carrying more and more money, the damage boost becomes less and less.

For example, back when I was cowboy, I would usually carry about 1m when going to grind. My base damage (no money power, and using the 1st number in the damage range), was about 28k. With carrying that 1m, it would be boosted close to 50k, about an 80% increase. Now keep that in mind, because here is a screenshot of me carrying 50m coins. https://gyazo.com/4e8f62d10a26169ae701c735d559bd0f

If you notice, my damage is now only 167k, which is a lot, but I am carrying 50,000,000 coins, which is a lot of money. It also shows the drastic decrease in damage boost the more money you are carrying, since if it was an 80% boost for every 1m you carry, my damage would be close to 1.2m damage rather than the 167k, which is a pretty massive difference. Also look at my defense, with carrying no money at all my defense output was normally about 64k, with carrying the 50m it dropped all the way down to 10k, which is quite the risk to take when grinding at that point I would say, especially when there are more threatening enemies available.

Now, why do I think this will mostly fix itself over time? Well, right now enemies are pretty weak and unthreatening, making 100k+ damage output insanely OP, which you can currently get without carrying THAT much money as a cowboy or taking that much risk. However as enemies continue to increase in strength and difficulty, cowboys will need to carry more and more money to keep up, which in turn will lower their defense lower and lower, and present a very large risk. I mean, when grinding something like znakes, or heck even scrap bots, 10k def with 300 hp is manageable if you can kill them quickly. But what happens when theres an enemy 5x stronger than scrap bots? No way you can grind those things with only 10k def. Thats kinda what I'm getting at - as enemies get stronger money power will require the players to carry more money which in turn will in itself nerf money power naturally.

CrazyVanilla wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:37 pm

Cowboy is definitely the best class for grinding because of money power, however I do have a bit of a rebuttal for you. I don't totally disagree with you here, but I more so think the problem here will mostly be fixed over time. Let me explain.

The way money power works, it is not exponential. It gives a bigger damage boost at the start (the first say 1m of money you are carrying), then as you keep carrying more and more money, the damage boost becomes less and less.

For example, back when I was cowboy, I would usually carry about 1m when going to grind. My base damage (no money power, and using the 1st number in the damage range), was about 28k. With carrying that 1m, it would be boosted close to 50k, about an 80% increase. Now keep that in mind, because here is a screenshot of me carrying 50m coins. https://gyazo.com/4e8f62d10a26169ae701c735d559bd0f

If you notice, my damage is now only 167k, which is a lot, but I am carrying 50,000,000 coins, which is a lot of money. It also shows the drastic decrease in damage boost the more money you are carrying, since if it was an 80% boost for every 1m you carry, my damage would be close to 1.2m damage rather than the 167k, which is a pretty massive difference. Also look at my defense, with carrying no money at all my defense output was normally about 64k, with carrying the 50m it dropped all the way down to 10k, which is quite the risk to take when grinding at that point I would say, especially when there are more threatening enemies available.

Now, why do I think this will mostly fix itself over time? Well, right now enemies are pretty weak and unthreatening, making 100k+ damage output insanely OP, which you can currently get without carrying THAT much money as a cowboy. However as enemies continue to increase in strength and difficulty, cowboys will need to carry more and more money to keep up, which in turn will lower their defense lower and lower, and present a very large risk. I mean, when grinding something like znakes, or heck even scrap bots, 10k def with 300 hp is manageable if you can kill them quickly. But what happens when theres an enemy 5x stronger than scrap bots? No way you can grind those things with only 10k def. Thats kinda what I'm getting at - as enemies get stronger money power will require the players to carry more money which in turn will in itself nerf money power naturally.

aka, tl;dr, playing the game long enough will pretty much force people to not turn their brain off, is that what you're saying?

I mean I already think 10k defense requires focusing on the game to not lose hours of progress, so what you are saying is basically the same but better.

cinos wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:40 pm

CrazyVanilla wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:37 pm

Cowboy is definitely the best class for grinding because of money power, however I do have a bit of a rebuttal for you. I don't totally disagree with you here, but I more so think the problem here will mostly be fixed over time. Let me explain.

The way money power works, it is not exponential. It gives a bigger damage boost at the start (the first say 1m of money you are carrying), then as you keep carrying more and more money, the damage boost becomes less and less.

For example, back when I was cowboy, I would usually carry about 1m when going to grind. My base damage (no money power, and using the 1st number in the damage range), was about 28k. With carrying that 1m, it would be boosted close to 50k, about an 80% increase. Now keep that in mind, because here is a screenshot of me carrying 50m coins. https://gyazo.com/4e8f62d10a26169ae701c735d559bd0f

If you notice, my damage is now only 167k, which is a lot, but I am carrying 50,000,000 coins, which is a lot of money. It also shows the drastic decrease in damage boost the more money you are carrying, since if it was an 80% boost for every 1m you carry, my damage would be close to 1.2m damage rather than the 167k, which is a pretty massive difference. Also look at my defense, with carrying no money at all my defense output was normally about 64k, with carrying the 50m it dropped all the way down to 10k, which is quite the risk to take when grinding at that point I would say, especially when there are more threatening enemies available.

Now, why do I think this will mostly fix itself over time? Well, right now enemies are pretty weak and unthreatening, making 100k+ damage output insanely OP, which you can currently get without carrying THAT much money as a cowboy. However as enemies continue to increase in strength and difficulty, cowboys will need to carry more and more money to keep up, which in turn will lower their defense lower and lower, and present a very large risk. I mean, when grinding something like znakes, or heck even scrap bots, 10k def with 300 hp is manageable if you can kill them quickly. But what happens when theres an enemy 5x stronger than scrap bots? No way you can grind those things with only 10k def. Thats kinda what I'm getting at - as enemies get stronger money power will require the players to carry more money which in turn will in itself nerf money power naturally.

aka, tl;dr, playing the game long enough will pretty much force people to not turn their brain off, is that what you're saying?

I mean I already think 10k defense requires focusing on the game to not lose hours of progress, so what you are saying is basically the same but better.

Basically yes. I mean, there will continue to be new sets and higher leveled players which will continue to increase stats, but it still shouldn't outpace the need for money power. It should just balance out over time to where money power while carrying smaller amounts of money is just good, not op at all, and carrying high amounts of money can be op, just actually requiring the player to take very big risk.