Make mage PVP not bυllshit?

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cinos
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Make mage PVP not bυllshit?

Post by cinos » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:30 am

Okay, get this, every other class in the game now has to avoid getting damaged, traverse environments, and implement quick strategies to deal as much damage as possible. Warriors have to...well, NOW they have to think of how to get close and personal without dying, Archers have to set up homing arrows and find the perfect spot for an arrow hoard (not bυllshit anymore), Gunmen have to set up grenades (now that they aren't garbage), clamps and flares to perfectly trap their opponent in a barrage of bullets...mages have to spawn a protection field and use storm cloud. No risk whatsoever, you CAN'T DIE!
This is a complete antithesis of the rest of the class setups in the game. Somehow the MAGE is the class that gets to be tankier than the warrior (since he LITERALLY can't be damaged when he activates the shield), with STORM CLOUD, an aimless, ranged attack, that locks you in place, for easy kills with the mp bubbles, the one INTERESTING part of the class since it actually requires the mage to run for once.
See the problem? The mage gets to reap all the benefits of the classes with none of the problems that come with them in PVP. This also becomes a problem in PVE where their best strategy is to spawn clouds and afk until the next batch of enemies appears, the most BORING possible grinding style is the most broken PVP class in the game, since it literally doesn't require you to actively try as much as other classes.
How do we fix this? How do we make mages NOT obnoxious to fight and boring to grind as? Simple, make the shield ACTUALLY IMMUNE TO DAMAGE, make it nonspammable (perhaps a cooldown where the mage has blue sparks around him representing his inability to use it?), and perhaps make it emphasize healing more than protecting? Probably a complex change that requires some thought, but perhaps lessen the defense given (aka DEFENSE GIVEN, as an actual defense stat), to make the shield heal the mage more from the damage he actually gains. This way attacking a mage is no longer a hopeless waste of time where you don't even know if you're damaging him, the bubble, or both, you ARE doing something, the mage is simply healing and mostly avoiding your shots because this can't last forever, nor should it.
To not just nerf the shield, let's think at what the mage needs...ah right, actually good ATTACKS! As of right now, the mage's mp bubbles remain as his most INTERESTING mechanic but at the same time the most polarizing for some. This weird MAGIC SUMO move has become infamous for being the last thing "rc_na_coke123" sees coming down the sky, before promptly spawning back in templar. It's INTERESTING, I like it, it's DEADLY, but I LIKE it that way. That's why I don't want these things to lose their prowess like that. These things should keep their defensive attribute, but we should ENCOURAGE more aggressive, non obnoxious mage play. The mage bubble rework proposed here makes the mage less, YA KNOW, immortal, so actually running up an enemy is going to be a bit difficult, yes? WELL, how about the frankly useless melee attack mage has, having a special attribute when using the move? When clicking, it'll fire forward, then if it doesn't hit anything, promptly fly back to the mage again. This will increase the range of this now ACTUALLY DAMAGABLE mage, and allow for more creative play, think trapping a player inbetween alternating bubble shots, while slowly coming closer, until you can finally unleash a barrage of storm clouds? That's COOL, it's aggressive, and it's fun for everyone since while this is happening, the mage is NOT tanking damage like a dbz character who hasn't given goku enough zenkai boosts to advance the plot.
I know that such a rework is probably TOO AMBITIOUS or whatever, but it has been in my mind for probably a month or so since mages are both depressing to watch grinding and OBNOXIOUS to fight. Nobody likes to fight something that doesn't seem to respond to damage, not even with ZEROS like how noobs see really high level players. This isn't even always when dying, sometimes just having a mage NOT DIE because he is simply better than everyone by admission that he's IMMORTAL is tedious on it's own!

tl;dr the current mage encourages campy gameplay with no risk that actively rewards mage with better stats than any other class. We should, in turn, make mage more aggressive, less durable, and more INTERESTING, so that we can improve the PVP space for EVERYONE on it. I mean, even WARRIORS are getting to be good in PVP for once with ninja slash, that means everything is possible, even if not done in the same way as I described, simply following the general direction of this suggestion will in my opinion improve the class dynamic.
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GonDup
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Re: Make mage PVP not bυllshit?

Post by GonDup » Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:14 am

Agreed, It's basically impossible to kill a mage in pvp. Also the actual bubble should take damage when hit, Not having to hit the player.

The normal attack of mage has to change as well, It's poop and then some.
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Re: Make mage PVP not bυllshit?

Post by Heneral » Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:43 am

cinos wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:30 am
Okay, get this, every other class in the game now has to avoid getting damaged, traverse environments, and implement quick strategies to deal as much damage as possible. Warriors have to...well, NOW they have to think of how to get close and personal without dying, Archers have to set up homing arrows and find the perfect spot for an arrow hoard (not bυllshit anymore), Gunmen have to set up grenades (now that they aren't garbage), clamps and flares to perfectly trap their opponent in a barrage of bullets...mages have to spawn a protection field and use storm cloud. No risk whatsoever, you CAN'T DIE!
This is a complete antithesis of the rest of the class setups in the game. Somehow the MAGE is the class that gets to be tankier than the warrior (since he LITERALLY can't be damaged when he activates the shield), with STORM CLOUD, an aimless, ranged attack, that locks you in place, for easy kills with the mp bubbles, the one INTERESTING part of the class since it actually requires the mage to run for once.
See the problem? The mage gets to reap all the benefits of the classes with none of the problems that come with them in PVP. This also becomes a problem in PVE where their best strategy is to spawn clouds and afk until the next batch of enemies appears, the most BORING possible grinding style is the most broken PVP class in the game, since it literally doesn't require you to actively try as much as other classes.
How do we fix this? How do we make mages NOT obnoxious to fight and boring to grind as? Simple, make the shield ACTUALLY IMMUNE TO DAMAGE, make it nonspammable (perhaps a cooldown where the mage has blue sparks around him representing his inability to use it?), and perhaps make it emphasize healing more than protecting? Probably a complex change that requires some thought, but perhaps lessen the defense given (aka DEFENSE GIVEN, as an actual defense stat), to make the shield heal the mage more from the damage he actually gains. This way attacking a mage is no longer a hopeless waste of time where you don't even know if you're damaging him, the bubble, or both, you ARE doing something, the mage is simply healing and mostly avoiding your shots because this can't last forever, nor should it.
To not just nerf the shield, let's think at what the mage needs...ah right, actually good ATTACKS! As of right now, the mage's mp bubbles remain as his most INTERESTING mechanic but at the same time the most polarizing for some. This weird MAGIC SUMO move has become infamous for being the last thing "rc_na_coke123" sees coming down the sky, before promptly spawning back in templar. It's INTERESTING, I like it, it's DEADLY, but I LIKE it that way. That's why I don't want these things to lose their prowess like that. These things should keep their defensive attribute, but we should ENCOURAGE more aggressive, non obnoxious mage play. The mage bubble rework proposed here makes the mage less, YA KNOW, immortal, so actually running up an enemy is going to be a bit difficult, yes? WELL, how about the frankly useless melee attack mage has, having a special attribute when using the move? When clicking, it'll fire forward, then if it doesn't hit anything, promptly fly back to the mage again. This will increase the range of this now ACTUALLY DAMAGABLE mage, and allow for more creative play, think trapping a player inbetween alternating bubble shots, while slowly coming closer, until you can finally unleash a barrage of storm clouds? That's COOL, it's aggressive, and it's fun for everyone since while this is happening, the mage is NOT tanking damage like a dbz character who hasn't given goku enough zenkai boosts to advance the plot.
I know that such a rework is probably TOO AMBITIOUS or whatever, but it has been in my mind for probably a month or so since mages are both depressing to watch grinding and OBNOXIOUS to fight. Nobody likes to fight something that doesn't seem to respond to damage, not even with ZEROS like how noobs see really high level players. This isn't even always when dying, sometimes just having a mage NOT DIE because he is simply better than everyone by admission that he's IMMORTAL is tedious on it's own!

tl;dr the current mage encourages campy gameplay with no risk that actively rewards mage with better stats than any other class. We should, in turn, make mage more aggressive, less durable, and more INTERESTING, so that we can improve the PVP space for EVERYONE on it. I mean, even WARRIORS are getting to be good in PVP for once with ninja slash, that means everything is possible, even if not done in the same way as I described, simply following the general direction of this suggestion will in my opinion improve the class dynamic.
True basically warrior should be the tankier than mage and the mage must be the weakiest of all classes cuz it's mage right even in the other games mages Is powerful when it comes to power but weak when it comes for durability And toughness but this game Doesn't Understand that logic. Mages bust be weak but powerful and warrior must be tough ,Archer And Gunman are In the middle Thats the game mechanics I see in most of the MMORPG games lol but I don't think Robby Doesn't Understand that. Cuz like He just make game But don't think Deeply The outcomes ? Correct me if I'm wrong.
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cinos
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Re: Make mage PVP not bυllshit?

Post by cinos » Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:06 pm

GonDup wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:14 am
Agreed, It's basically impossible to kill a mage in pvp. Also the actual bubble should take damage when hit, Not having to hit the player.

The normal attack of mage has to change as well, It's poop and then some.
Yeah was thinking about that, may be a decently short ranged magic projectile.
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Re: Make mage PVP not bυllshit?

Post by JoMan » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:38 pm

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Flashlight237
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Re: Make mage PVP not bυllshit?

Post by Flashlight237 » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:45 pm

I definitely agree that the force field should really be nerfed. Got tired of having to explain myself there.

As for the base attack, eh... It's actually pretty strong compared to everyone else's base attacks; with the current top weapons 15% more powerful than a warrior with the same stats (and warriors were advertised as the go-to class for power), and that can actually be bumped up (though I wouldn't recommend it if you don't like the MP-loss trade-off). I would, however, like another level or at least a slight buff to Magic Breath, tho. It's basically their best option PvP-wise as everyone would know to avoid Storm Cloud like the plague.

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Re: Make mage PVP not bυllshit?

Post by cinos » Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:47 pm

Flashlight237 wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:45 pm
I definitely agree that the force field should really be nerfed. Got tired of having to explain myself there.

As for the base attack, eh... It's actually pretty strong compared to everyone else's base attacks; with the current top weapons 15% more powerful than a warrior with the same stats (and warriors were advertised as the go-to class for power), and that can actually be bumped up (though I wouldn't recommend it if you don't like the MP-loss trade-off). I would, however, like another level or at least a slight buff to Magic Breath, tho. It's basically their best option PvP-wise as everyone would know to avoid Storm Cloud like the plague.
I have seen people use it but it doesn't do much besides ATTEMPT another lock, when the actual problem is just that mages can try locking you WITHOUT a risk thanks to the big blue ballsack carrying more balls.
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Re: Make mage PVP not bυllshit?

Post by Robby » Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:53 pm

Ok thanks for the suggestion, makes sense. I have heard player's mentioning the force field needing some rebalancing.

So here is what I have done for the next update. If a mage's force field is destroyed (not when the time simply runs out), then the player will go into a wheezing animation, where the character appears to be breathing very hard and out of breath. The animation will last about 4.38 seconds. During the animation the player will be unable to move or attack. So there will be a little bit of risk in using the force field and letting it get pummeled a little too much if it breaks. This should help for PvP, so other players can come up to them while their wheezing and crack 'em in their mouth.

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Re: Make mage PVP not bυllshit?

Post by cinos » Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:15 pm

Robby wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:53 pm
Ok thanks for the suggestion, makes sense. I have heard player's mentioning the force field needing some rebalancing.

So here is what I have done for the next update. If a mage's force field is destroyed (notwhen the time simply runs out), then the player will go into a wheezing animation, where the character appears to be breathing very hard and out of breath. The animation will last about 4.38 seconds. During the animation the player will be unable to move or attack. So there will be a little bit of risk in using the force field and letting it get pummeled a little too much if it breaks. This should help for PvP, so other players can come up to them while their wheezing and crack 'em in their mouth.
Oh that sounds pretty cool actually, we'll see how that helps in balancing pvp, hopefully a lot. Storm cloud is still pretty iffy with how it can make you immobile for minutes, but that's a decent start. Mage shield is pretty tough to break btw so you might wanna check into that aswell.
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Re: Make mage PVP not bυllshit?

Post by Robby » Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:29 pm

Ok, glad to hear! We'll see how it helps!

For the storm cloud, you mean there is not enough time in between lightning strikes intervals for attacked player to get up and move away?

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