Reasons to Limit Expertise to 20 (20% crit damage)

[CrazyVanilla]

If you do wanna keep expertise unlimited, how about this?

1. The first 20 points would provide 1% crit chance per level up to 20 for 20% crit chance.
2. The other points would be put into movement speed (no, movement speed is not "slow," people. Y'all are just impatient.) by 0.5% up to 100 for a 50% total. Expertise stops at 100 anyhow, so why not? And also, I just don't wanna risk clipping through walls.
3. Benches and chairs would provide 1% more HP and MP per level of expertise up to 100 for twice the bench HP and MP restoration.

I just really don't want crit chance to be 100% at all.

This is a great idea, as long as the class stat gets buffed with this change. Otherwise we will end up in a situation where everyone does hardly any damage and it's near impossible to increase it (would probably need to be like level 150+ to even farm beetles effectively).

I mean the 80 extra points that were put into crit damage would've almost doubled your class stat instead, so I highly doubt that's the case.

Reference my first reply right under your initial post, comparing my stats to Active--'s stats. He had 2.75x more Archery than I, a higher Archery bonus from his accessory, and a better bow, yet only did ~1.58x more damage than I.

[Artemis]

This is a great idea, as long as the class stat gets buffed with this change. Otherwise we will end up in a situation where everyone does hardly any damage and it's near impossible to increase it (would probably need to be like level 150+ to even farm beetles effectively).

This pls

2. The other points would be put into movement speed (no, movement speed is not "slow," people. Y'all are just impatient.) by 0.5% up to 100 for a 50% total. Expertise stops at 100 anyhow, so why not? And also, I just don't wanna risk clipping through walls.

I personally don't think it would be all that great to just upgrade movement speed after the first 20 levels of expertise. Seems like something that very few players would upgrade and you don't really need more speed as it already is. Kinda difficult to come up with something else, but that doesn't seem like that's the solution.

Expertise Crit Chance
The does indeed sound like critical hits need some balancing then. The 20 limit cap sounds like it could work. However, there is one small issue I have with it. That is that after investing 20 points, there is no use for the skill anymore. Ideally, I'd like the skill to always be upgradable so that there is always that door open for players to make their character different and it gives them more choice in their character build.

I get that you want to keep upgrading it but, just seems like you would eventually run into the same problem again as players continue to level up. I also think that making skills for classes to upgrade their crit chance at the cost of defense(or something) would still keep that door open for character builds. I do still think we need a lot more variety before we even begin talking about different builds though. It's all up to you though, hoping some combination of ideas gets us past this bump in the game's development c:

[cinos]

Whatever happens I don't care it just better give me a free stat reset because it would be bullcrap if it just ate all my points. Honestly I don't mind expertise right now, maybe with better pvp we can have ACTUAL combat for once but...eh time will tell?

[Robby]

Ok, thanks for the feedback everyone. I've taken everything mentioned here and tried to conjoin it all into some solutions. I know this topic is for Expertise, but I'll make notes of some other solutions for balancing since they were mentioned here. Here is what I'm thinking based on what everyone said and thinking some things through.

Expertise
I've thought about making it do other things as mentioned, but I'm also thinking that may convolute the skill too much, and perhaps it's better to just keep it simple and make it for critical damage as it already is. So I'm thinking the original 20% cap idea, as well as decrease the amount each skill adds to 0.5% instead of 1%. So the skill would then be capped at 40 (20%).

MP/HP Healing
The massive usage of HP/MP healing items does seem to need fixing. So here is my proposed solution.
-Passive HP/MP healing will be added, so you heal all the time even when not sitting.
-The amount you heal when sitting will be further increased as well.
-The amount you passively heal will be relative to your total HP/MP instead of being a fixed amount. This will further incentivize increasing your MP/HP.
-Healing items will have their cost tripled. This is to slow down the overly heavy usage of healing items and put a better focus on upgrading your HP/MP instead.

More Points!
Here a big'n. The amount of ability points you get per level will be increased from 3 to 4! Leveling up in Eliatopia is a bit slower, and this will make leveling up more rewarding.
Additionally, increase special skill points gained per level from 1 to 2! For the same reason as stated above. There are still a fair amount of more skills planned, so if I wasn't to do this than it would take quite a while for players to get anywhere with their special skill levels.


Let me know what you think. I may begin implementing this today or tomorrow, unless there are some big "No's" as to why I shouldn't.

[MinaYoung]

Just my opinion, I don't think you shouldn't add 4 points or 2 skill points. If so maybe low level players could kill some stronge monsters.

[CrazyVanilla]

Ok, thanks for the feedback everyone. I've taken everything mentioned here and tried to conjoin it all into some solutions. I know this topic is for Expertise, but I'll make notes of some other solutions for balancing since they were mentioned here. Here is what I'm thinking based on what everyone said and thinking some things through.

Expertise
I've thought about making it do other things as mentioned, but I'm also thinking that may convolute the skill too much, and perhaps it's better to just keep it simple and make it for critical damage as it already is. So I'm thinking the original 20% cap idea, as well as decrease the amount each skill adds to 0.5% instead of 1%. So the skill would then be capped at 40 (20%).

MP/HP Healing
The massive usage of HP/MP healing items does seem need fixing. So here is my proposed solution.
-Passive HP/MP healing will be added, so you heal all the time even when not sitting.
-The amount you heal when sitting will be further increased as well.
-The amount you passively heal will be relative to your total HP/MP instead of being a fixed amount. This will further incentivize increasing your MP/HP.
-Healing items will have their cost tripled. This is to slow down the overly heavy usage of healing items and put a better focus on upgrading your HP/MP instead.

More Points!
Here a big'n. The amount of ability points you get per level will be increased from 3 to 4! Leveling up in Eliatopia is a bit slower, and this will make leveling up more rewarding.
Additionally, increase special skill points gained per level from 1 to 2! For the same reason as stated above. There are still a fair amount of more skills planned, so if I wasn't to do this than it would take quite a while for players to get anywhere with their special skill levels.


Let me know what you think. I may begin implementing this today or tomorrow, unless there are some big "No's" as to why I shouldn't.

I think everything you mentioned is a great solution actually, at least it sounds good to try it (as long as everyone gets those extra points for previous levels and get their expertise points back, which I assume you would be doing anyway). I think adding the extra points may help to fix the lack of damage issue and I think passive hp/mp healing is very much needed as well. Pineapples get expensive when you use thousands of them

[Flashlight237]

Ok, thanks for the feedback everyone. I've taken everything mentioned here and tried to conjoin it all into some solutions. I know this topic is for Expertise, but I'll make notes of some other solutions for balancing since they were mentioned here. Here is what I'm thinking based on what everyone said and thinking some things through.

Expertise
I've thought about making it do other things as mentioned, but I'm also thinking that may convolute the skill too much, and perhaps it's better to just keep it simple and make it for critical damage as it already is. So I'm thinking the original 20% cap idea, as well as decrease the amount each skill adds to 0.5% instead of 1%. So the skill would then be capped at 40 (20%).

MP/HP Healing
The massive usage of HP/MP healing items does seem need fixing. So here is my proposed solution.
-Passive HP/MP healing will be added, so you heal all the time even when not sitting.
-The amount you heal when sitting will be further increased as well.
-The amount you passively heal will be relative to your total HP/MP instead of being a fixed amount. This will further incentivize increasing your MP/HP.
-Healing items will have their cost tripled. This is to slow down the overly heavy usage of healing items and put a better focus on upgrading your HP/MP instead.

More Points!
Here a big'n. The amount of ability points you get per level will be increased from 3 to 4! Leveling up in Eliatopia is a bit slower, and this will make leveling up more rewarding.
Additionally, increase special skill points gained per level from 1 to 2! For the same reason as stated above. There are still a fair amount of more skills planned, so if I wasn't to do this than it would take quite a while for players to get anywhere with their special skill levels.


Let me know what you think. I may begin implementing this today or tomorrow, unless there are some big "No's" as to why I shouldn't.

As perhaps the only guy who vyed for stat point count increases, I think this works out best. 2 skill points/level might be a bit much, but I am more than happy to let the idea be experimented on, so we'll see. To account for the extra stat points, I'll provide amendments to the startup bonuses for each class as well (mainly so each class starts with 4 points instead of 3). Here's what I'll propose.:

Warrior:
+1 Defense

Wizard:
+5 HP (+1 stat point into HP)

Archer:
+1 Expertise

Gunman:
+1 Artillery

Whipmaster (new):
+3 Dexterity (ability to flick the wrist, aka the Whipmaster's attack stat), +1 Expertise

I will also suggest a few monster buffs for early-game (pre-Rafflesia) monsters in exchange; all minor.:

Squisher: 17->18 HP
Fanged Squisher: 20->21 HP
Petunia: 35->40 HP
Spiked Squisher: 23->25 HP
Shagdaw: 45->48 HP
Hellshag: 53->57 HP
Ground Spitter: 11->12 or 13 Power
Crabs: 48->54 HP
Armed Dillo: 65->72 HP
Dumtilian: 110->120 HP; 9->10 Defense; at least double the drop rates for non-Eggplant items and half the drop rate for Eggplant item.
Agent: 65->70 HP
Ooze: 6->7 Defense
Batling (similar idea): 33->36 HP; 28->32 Fire Power

In the mean time, well, it's about time I rewrote my boss data sheet.

[Swagybob]

support!

[Artemis]

I think everything you mentioned is a great solution actually, at least it sounds good to try it (as long as everyone gets those extra points for previous levels and get their expertise points back, which I assume you would be doing anyway). I think adding the extra points may help to fix the lack of damage issue and I think passive hp/mp healing is very much needed as well. Pineapples get expensive when you use thousands of them

This^


Also I agree with flash, 2 skill points might be a few too many. But, we could experiment with it and see how it turns out with the new skills coming.

[GonDup]

I think everything you mentioned is a great solution actually, at least it sounds good to try it (as long as everyone gets those extra points for previous levels and get their expertise points back, which I assume you would be doing anyway). I think adding the extra points may help to fix the lack of damage issue and I think passive hp/mp healing is very much needed as well. Pineapples get expensive when you use thousands of them

This^


Also I agree with flash, 2 skill points might be a few too many. But, we could experiment with it and see how it turns out with the new skills coming.

Perhaps getting 2 skill points after level 50 could help balance it?
2 skill points every level from the starting does sound very op.