Eliatopia Forum

Speaking about the current controversy regarding poison zone. I am going to explain this in logical terms. Recently, the new addition of the saw guardians has caused a level spike. Players were getting an upwards of seven levels per day. Thus they gained a lot of skillpoints to spend. Seeing this trend will only continue in the near future, there will be many high level players with insane builds with higher and higher HP and defense. Which will make posion zone much more essential to achieving breakthrough. Poison zone and poison will always be a static damage, once players reach high enough level, there will be a point where it is no longer as strong, maybe then it will have to be buffed.

TLDR; Players will get better, poison zone will always remain the same.

Now the poison zone is interesting among players with high hp and poison weapons, because it's huge damage lol. Players should be able to do physical damage instead of just relying on poison.

TheWood wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:37 am

Now the poison zone is interesting among players with high hp and poison weapons, because it's huge damage lol. Players should be able to do physical damage instead of just relying on poison.

I think you are missing the point, poison is a balancing rune, and zone is a skill made specifically because of how mandatory poison is to a gunner (do not even try to pretend gunning without poison is possible, not unless you are rich). I think it's valid to mention that Xantis legitimately cannot take poison with anything other than zone, because poison IS the gunman\s rune, it is essential for his damage output, and trying to nerf is with some supposed "soft damage buff", which will always be inferior to the other ranged class's soft damage.
Personally I think it is quite unfair to pretend poison for gunman is some kinda broken rune just because there is a very clear symbiotic relationship between shots per second, and a guaranteed damage number. It's like pretending fire for warrior is overpowered because fire with multipliers is obviously going to increase the %, making things like crits basically guaranteed kills on any build, even with fire resistance. Do you know what both of those things have in common? They both require sacrifice, specifically something like the havoc or the pellet spitter.
Do you want to do incredible fire damage? Good job, you do less damage overall to enemies and cannot equip a shield. You want to use an incredibly fast gun to benefit from the raw damage? You practically do no soft damage, most grinding is a chore, and all enemies require chasing down...and yet again, no shield, though rather amusingly poison does not reflect...I don't get it either.

Yeah, I know, you'll look at this and say "haha, poop shιττer", I don't care. I still believe it is perfectly valid in the era of rune resistance...I mean, it was made because of it.

shekelstein wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:16 am

Speaking about the current controversy regarding poison zone. I am going to explain this in logical terms. Recently, the new addition of the saw guardians has caused a level spike. Players were getting an upwards of seven levels per day. Thus they gained a lot of skillpoints to spend. Seeing this trend will only continue in the near future, there will be many high level players with insane builds with higher and higher HP and defense. Which will make posion zone much more essential to achieving breakthrough. Poison zone and poison will always be a static damage, once players reach high enough level, there will be a point where it is no longer as strong, maybe then it will have to be buffed.

TLDR; Players will get better, poison zone will always remain the same.

Thank you for perfectly describing the reason cowboys SHOULDN'T have to rely on poison damage. Exactly what you have said is something that was brought up when the resistance was added. There will be a point where poison becomes basically irrelevant, so having to rely on it is a short-term plan, and will require more balancing in the future anyways. Why not just do it now? Poison should be nerfed, cowboy base damage should be buffed to compensate for some of that damage loss.

cinos wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:04 am

I still believe it is perfectly valid in the era of rune resistance...I mean, it was made because of it.

Pre-resistance, poison did 12 damage max (max of p3), and it was perfectly fine. Obviously, runes were always intended to go to stage 5, so the intended max poison damage was 20, which again, would have been perfectly fine (and 20 still is fine today).

I have full P4 resistance on my armor, and with pzone + P5 I still take like 45 poison damage. To put that into perspective, if I DON'T get a crit with rage + maxed Havoc, I do LESS damage then that to top level players in pvp. Sure, I can crit, and other runes etc, but my Havoc is also the strongest weapon in the game, costs 50mil and I am required to have over 200 strength to be viable in pvp, not to mention a level requirement of 109. Why should a player with level 2 squirt guns with P5 and 1 artillery be comparable to that with guaranteed damage, not reliant on RNG at all like every other class is?

cinos wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:04 am

TheWood wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:37 am

Now the poison zone is interesting among players with high hp and poison weapons, because it's huge damage lol. Players should be able to do physical damage instead of just relying on poison.

I think you are missing the point, poison is a balancing rune, and zone is a skill made specifically because of how mandatory poison is to a gunner (do not even try to pretend gunning without poison is possible, not unless you are rich). I think it's valid to mention that Xantis legitimately cannot take poison with anything other than zone, because poison IS the gunman\s rune, it is essential for his damage output, and trying to nerf is with some supposed "soft damage buff", which will always be inferior to the other ranged class's soft damage.
Personally I think it is quite unfair to pretend poison for gunman is some kinda broken rune just because there is a very clear symbiotic relationship between shots per second, and a guaranteed damage number. It's like pretending fire for warrior is overpowered because fire with multipliers is obviously going to increase the %, making things like crits basically guaranteed kills on any build, even with fire resistance. Do you know what both of those things have in common? They both require sacrifice, specifically something like the havoc or the pellet spitter.
Do you want to do incredible fire damage? Good job, you do less damage overall to enemies and cannot equip a shield. You want to use an incredibly fast gun to benefit from the raw damage? You practically do no soft damage, most grinding is a chore, and all enemies require chasing down...and yet again, no shield, though rather amusingly poison does not reflect...I don't get it either.

I can easily kill Xantis without poison zone, I only need 5-10k to use a coin shot. Having 1-2m to grind in 99 area doesn't mean you're rich, you only need 2-5 hours there to collect that amount.
Where is balance so that level 21 gun can kill 121+ levels? Saw and drills pistols can do physical damage in pvp.

TheWood wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:32 am

Where is balance so that level 21 gun can kill 121+ levels? Saw and drills pistols can do physical damage in pvp.

Especially with ice runes, guns actually can do decent damage in pvp without poison now.

Therefore it might not be that bad to just remove poison zone from PvP. Players would still be able to fight with mobs same as now, yet we won't have to bother with insane any lvl gunman advantage on PvP. Being able to deal constant 45 damage per shot means you can kill many high lvls within less than few sec, while other classes mostly can rely only on accurate attacks based on their actual power which seems unfair.

GeraltOfRivia wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:51 pm

Therefore it might not be that bad to just remove poison zone from PvP. Players would still be able to fight with mobs same as now, yet we won't have to bother with insane any lvl gunman advantage on PvP. Being able to deal constant 45 damage per shot means you can kill many high lvls within less than few sec, while other classes mostly can rely only on accurate attacks based on their actual power which seems unfair.

Oh yeah the classic "just have one very out of place skill that only works in pve" argument.

No

cinos wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:10 pm

GeraltOfRivia wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:51 pm

Therefore it might not be that bad to just remove poison zone from PvP. Players would still be able to fight with mobs same as now, yet we won't have to bother with insane any lvl gunman advantage on PvP. Being able to deal constant 45 damage per shot means you can kill many high lvls within less than few sec, while other classes mostly can rely only on accurate attacks based on their actual power which seems unfair.

Oh yeah the classic "just have one very out of place skill that only works in pve" argument.

No

Dude just stop denying the truth. The fact you are able to kill all mobs eccept bosses using only pellet spitter with P5 and poison zone exactly means something is not right here. Yet i mentioned only idea that maybe removing poizon zone from PvP would solve most ppl complaints about it, yet you not only vs me but vs everyone else gonna agrue and defend it. Why FFS you gonna act similar on each case. When you are right yes i get it(kinda) but this time(not only tbh) you are overreacting because your built is based on poizon and without it you would have to do reset. Just deal with the fact most of community wants it to be nerfed mainly because of PvP. If not be my(community) guest and show us solution that will satisfy most of us, not only gunman weapons users.

GeraltOfRivia wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:40 am

cinos wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:10 pm

GeraltOfRivia wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:51 pm

Therefore it might not be that bad to just remove poison zone from PvP. Players would still be able to fight with mobs same as now, yet we won't have to bother with insane any lvl gunman advantage on PvP. Being able to deal constant 45 damage per shot means you can kill many high lvls within less than few sec, while other classes mostly can rely only on accurate attacks based on their actual power which seems unfair.

Oh yeah the classic "just have one very out of place skill that only works in pve" argument.

No

Dude just stop denying the truth. The fact you are able to kill all mobs eccept bosses using only pellet spitter with P5 and poison zone exactly means something is not right here. Yet i mentioned only idea that maybe removing poizon zone from PvP would solve most ppl complaints about it, yet you not only vs me but vs everyone else gonna agrue and defend it. Why FFS you gonna act similar on each case. When you are right yes i get it(kinda) but this time(not only tbh) you are overreacting because your built is based on poizon and without it you would have to do reset. Just deal with the fact most of community wants it to be nerfed mainly because of PvP. If not be my(community) guest and show us solution that will satisfy most of us, not only gunman weapons users.

Uh no I'm not reading that for one simple reason I will repeat again.

The "just have one very out of place skill that only works in pve" suggestion is terrible, there is a reason no skill does that, and why every time it is suggested, it's ignored.