Overall damage.

[CrazyVanilla]

Oh wow almost like what we all want is for runes to work and balance the game WOW I wonder if rune resistance was a mistake :>

yes

[GeraltOfRivia]

Ok, I'm going to just skip some of what you said because I don't think you understand what I said properly.

I don't think you understand the fact of bulk damage > DPS in this game. When classes like archer and warrior can 1 hit things, what is even the point of having a higher DPS when you can't 1 hit? Do you see any archer grinding scrap bots using 1 arrow? No, they always use hoard. You see warriors using normal attacks to grind scrap bots? Very rarely, its usually ninja slash or power smash, and always with rage, because 1 hitting something is FAR better than killing it over time. When grinding alone it doesn't matter much, but when grinding with other players it matters greatly.

If I as a warrior go grind with a cowboy at scrap bots who is using coinshot, if they are not using money power, or even if they are but just mildly, I will get more exp than they will because I can steal majority of their kills, and me having to be close to the enemy makes me closer to the next enemy then they are. As an archer you can do the same thing if you grind correctly. The issue comes with the massively high damage outputs from money power, which will likely balance itself out over time and carry big risk. Right now everything is just weak and presents little to no risk. I'm not saying cowboy is perfectly fine for grinding, but the problem won't get solved if you don't implement the correct solution, which requires you to identify the correct cause of the problem, which you seem to be bypassing, talking about coinshot and traps when they are only OP because of the insanely high damage outputs of money power.

About clamp traps, I'll say the same thing I've been saying for a long time now and for some reason people can't comprehend. They are OP for literally 1 area, because it's a small area with fast spawn rates. Go try using clamp traps in area #69 or #70 or #72. They are nowhere near OP. It just so happens that for now that area is the top area, but a new area is coming next update so it that won't be the case anymore. As long as areas remain wider and spreadout areas like the ones I mentioned or like Azulongs and others, clamp traps will not be OP at all. I do not support nerfing something because it's OP for literally only 1 area, that's how balance is ruined. That being said I do support the 8-10 limit because it just makes sense not to be able to stack them up at pvp entrance and stuff while not removing their intended function.

Relating to pvp, no offense but you don't pvp, so please don't try to keep saying I'm wrong about cowboy being useless in pvp when I literally pvped all the time before it died because of resistance being added, and I was a cowboy for a lot of that time. Cinos, who is another active pvper, says the same thing and so do many others. This is just another example of you not understanding that bulk damage > DPS in this game. It applies to both pvp and pvm.

When i was writing this thread i knew that most high lvl(60+ btw) active players will refuse to make any changes by the fact that many of them are gunmans, so they feel comfortable with current situation(looking at economy data is misleading since most warriors are under lvl 60. But to the point again.
Yes it is obvious that every class use their best skill/skills to perform fast kill. As you said archer use arrow hoard, warrior use both rage and ninja slash etc. And that's the reason they exist-to make killing easier. Now at the moment in fact mostly gunmans with clamps and warriors with rage and ninja slash can one-shot scrap bots, archers often need to perform 2 arrow hoards, tho if gunman place clamps not in exact spawn point, he might not kill it if there is other player. As for the part about you vs gunman you mentioned only money power and coin shot-why did you skip clamps there?. Let me answer-if a clam is placed correctly it isntantly kill mob and even ninja slash won't help since there is always player reaction delay( average is around 0.25 sec) while clamp react instantly without any delay. Also despite the fact we decided to focus on one area, there is mobility issue. Gunman can keep moving all the time dropping clamps and shooting, every other class needs to stop to perform any attack. Archer to perform perfect arow hoard have to be in most cases "face to face" with a mob(electric chain helps with nearby enemies but that works good not only for this class). So the bigger distance from mob to mob, the more archer need to travel to be able to perform that "bulls eye". Same case goes exactly to warrior-ninja slash is made for nearby group of enemy,especially if you add to this slowing down skills. So on wide areas gunman can still easily surpass other classes.
Now the fact of bulk damage > DPS in this game.In fact bulk damage wins only versus one strong( that you still can kill quite fast before bulk damage <DPS) or few nearby enemies that you can kill within f.e 1-3 shots( still it have to be fast kill). In a game like this you always need to add a distance you have to travel to each one, your speed, active and passive skills. Now both archer and warrior can only rely on active skills that requires to be activated right before kill, gunman can simply drop and run to next mob, knowing area well enough.
As a last thing, at the begining i said that i wanna skip PvP part. But i'm gonna answer about it for the last time. Yes i don't PvP often mailny because of poison damage-i didn't see a point of being high lvl there if a low lvl gunman having 2 guns or one really fast is capable of dealing so much damage to anyone just by having weapon with P3. Balancing PvP can't mostly rely on runes-it should rely on player lvl and skills. As cinos said killing warrior is possible-all you need is to keep proper distance and look for best occasion to attack. Warrior can only rely on his dmg, def and close combat skills while high range should always rely on fast movement.